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The Long Term Cost of High Investment Expenses

tax_man2.jpgToday's rude question: When does your money manager cost more than the taxman?

Answer: Sooner than you think.

If the idea of comparing a money manager with the tax collector sounds a bit perverse, let's examine some basic realities.

When we earn income, the taxman stands between us and our income. Before we see a dime, taxes are taken from our paychecks. What trickles down to us is a good deal less than what we earned.

Today, federal income tax rates range from a low of 10 percent on the first $7,825 of taxable income on a single return ($15,650 joint) to 35 percent on taxable income over $349,700 on a single or joint return.

Relatively few get to complain about paying at the 35 percent rate. But, as you'll soon see, a schoolteacher can lose more than that to her investment manager.

When our money earns a return, its manager is like the taxman. He stands, just as Kurt Vonnegut's Sen. Rosewater always preferred, between us and the return on our money. Before we ever see a dime, management expenses are tactfully removed. In the world of managed mutual funds, variable annuities and other widely available financial products, we're often told the expenses are modest.

If you believe that, I will consider selling you a number of bridges that I own, starting with the Mystic River Bridge in Boston.

They aren't modest because most managers don't earn above-average returns. So their expenses reduce the return we get.

Even then, it might seem unfair to compare a money manager to the taxman. After all, if large-capitalization domestic stocks can be expected provide a compound annual return of 10.4 percent, then the average 1.41 percent expense ratio of large blend mutual funds takes only a modest 13.6 percent of the expected gross return.

That's a whole lot less than the taxman takes from most of the people, right?

Wrong.

You and I invest to capture the miracle of compound growth. The annual expense ratio that seems reasonable or modest for a single year reduces our compound return. Over time, it reduces the amount of return we keep. Not by 13.6 percent, but by 25 percent, 33 percent, 35 percent and more--- as much as the taxman collects from the highest-income taxpayers.

Here are a few examples:
  • Schoolteachers have 403(b) plans that are dominated by expensive insurance-based products. They often cost 2.5 percent a year. This expense takes 24 percent of the return in the first year, assuming an index return of 10.4 percent. It reduces their accumulation by 32.6 percent by the 10th year. The reduction is a whopping 42.6 percent by the 20th year. So a career schoolteacher pays an investment management "tax" that is far higher than anyone, at any income level, pays.
  • Employees in medium-size 401(k) plans may pay 1.4 percent in management expenses for their mutual fund choices. They lose a modest 13.5 percent of their return in the first year. The damage rises to 19.1 percent by the 10th year and 26.1 percent by the 20th year. Over a working career of 40 years, management expenses reduce their accumulation by a stunning 40.8 percent--- again, far higher than the highest marginal tax rate.
  • Employees who are blessed with the wisdom lacked by their employers can invest in low-cost index funds in their IRA and Roth IRA accounts. Assuming an average annual expense of 0.20 percent (higher than current costs for such funds at Vanguard or Fidelity), they lose a minuscule 1.9 percent of their return in the first year. The tab rises to 2.9 percent after 10 years and 4.1 percent after 20 years. By the 40th year, their accumulation has been reduced by only 7.1 percent.
Most workers are losing more to the expenses of their managed plans than they will ever lose to the taxman.

If you'd like to see how these differences affect you personally, I invite you to visit my website, www.scottburns.com, and experiment with my new online calculator. It will show you the difference in dollars and as a percent of accumulation between the costs of any two plans you choose.

On the web: God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater

In this Vonnegut novel, the senator's nephew is advised to "get down to the banks of the money river where the rich and powerful slurp."

Comments

 

ABModerator03 said:

Good Morning Scott: This was a very eye opening article! I have made it a prime screening requirement that the fees associated with my investments be less that 1.0 percent which Dodge and Cox Balanced Fund, Vanguard Star and Vanguard Wellington easily meet. But that requirement was really something I took from Morningstar, Bogle, and you without really computing the influence on my portfolio because it just made sense. Your article this morning prompted me to actually make these calculations. Boy, what I found out really scared me in that I was not as aware of this as I should have been. While most of my investments are tax deferred and my investment horizon is not as long as it once was, the percentage of my investments subject to yearly taxation is growing and the importance of mutual fund expenses are becoming more critical. I know that you have written on this subject many times, but I believe a more graphic example printed in the paper will drive the point home. Your reference to your web site is great, but still recommend you find a way to show it in the paper. This reminds me of my personal discovery that re-balancing ones portfolio automatically allows you to fulfill the age old advice of getting rich in the stock market by "buying low and selling high". It has only been in the last two or three years that I have seen this discussed in financial articles. You have also discussed the re-balancing of portfolios but tying the two together has not been emphasized as much as it should. Keep up the good work. Your article is the first one I read when it appears in the paper.

SINCERELY YOURS, H. D. From Scott Burns: Thanks for your note. Investment expenses are a subject that you write about regularly, not just once so there will be more. I'll also be doing one on the impact of expenses on retirement portfolios--- because they can materially reduce the odds of portfolio survival. I probably should have included a table of results in the column--- something visual--- but I know that tables are often cut by newspaper editors because they are more difficult to compose for print.
March 11, 2007 8:06 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Scott, I read your article in the Austin American, and after today decided to check your website out; and it is outstanding. Your articles are great. Just read the Home Depot article, and like you, I used to be able to go to HD and get what I needed and explanations on items purchased. Then it got to where anytime you looked for a orange apron, if you found one and made "eye contact," they either looked away or "hoofed it" down another isle. Their prices are outrageous. An example is their bid on installing 85.9 sq ft of silestone was ($7,000.00+) the highest bid out of five. I just don't go there anymore.

I have a lot more reading to do, but do have some questions on investing, so I will be back in touch.

Thanks, Tom. From Scott Burns: It may not be fair to blame HD for an independent contractors' pricing. Remember, some contractors will bid any job, no matter how busy they are. But if they're fully booked, their pricing can get pretty crazy.
March 11, 2007 11:55 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

I've sent copies of this wonderfull but sad article to my children. I hope they take it to heart. It is a crying shame what Wall Street does to the little people: Rolls Royce owners vs used pickup owners. (And the Rolls are bought at the expense of the pickup owners, all the while Wall Street has it's hand over its pious heart telling us they are here to help us provide for our families. Trust us.) From Scott Burns: My sentiments exactly. We all need to remember that the brokerage business, in general, has it's business model pegged to earning at least 200 basis points a year on OUR money.
March 11, 2007 12:45 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

While this article might be good for those investors that aren't able to differentiate good investment managers from bad investment managers (good managers are those with a Morningstar rating of 5 stars ;) ), the article is biased to the indexing strategy and indicates that investors are paying high expense ratios for index like performance. Maybe that was your intent based on your audience.

Taking into account a premium that a small cap or international investment manager creates net of the 1.0% expense ratio doesn't cost more than the tax man. I agree with you though, anyone paying over 0.20% for market-like returns is on the wrong path. From Scott Burns: I wish I shared your confidence in selecting "good managers." My experience is that there is a revolving door for "good managers" and that the manager who rates 5 stars today may be 2 or 3 in a few years. Bogle and others have documented the scarcity of persistence in managers and the odds against superior future performance based on past performance.

That's why, over many years, I became convinced that index investing was the way to go. It's why I have advocated index investing in my column.

Another way to look at this is to consider betting on a manager as a form of lottery ticket. If 70 percent of managers, on average, fail to beat their benchmark index then there is only a 30 percent chance of selecting a superior manager. If the additional cost is 1 percent, just making the bet requires substantial out performance of the index.
March 12, 2007 1:09 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Dear Mr. Scott Burns,

After reading your article yesterday, 3/11/07 I was startled about this bit of info: "Schoolteachers have 403(b) plans that are dominated by expensive insurance-based products. They often cost 2.5 percent a year. This expense takes 24 percent of the return in the first year, assuming an index return of 10.4 percent. It reduces their accumulation by 32.6 percent by the 10th year. The reduction is a whopping 42.6 percent by the 20th year. So a career schoolteacher pays an investment management "tax" that is far higher than anyone, at any income level, pays."

Although I'm not a teacher, I work at a university and have 403b accounts (some in TIAA-CREF annuities, some in Vanguard) but wonder if you were implying TIAA-CREF as the expensive insurance-based products? My understanding is that the expense ratio is minimal -- less than .50 percent. Not true?

thank you,

Linda From Scott Burns: You're OK with TIAA-CREF annuities. Their expenses, as you thought, are relatively low. Think of it as part of the long term legacy of Andrew Carnegie.

In primary and secondary schools, however, there is often a free-for-all of competing insurance companies offering variable annuities for 403(b) plans. These often have mortality and insurance charges in excess of 1 percent a year in addition to the costs of the underlying funds/sub accounts. The situation is particularly bad in California and Texas. Worse, it is compounded by teachers unions that endorse expensive products while taking fees from the insurance companies. (You can learn more about this by searching columns written by Kathy Kristof at the LA Times.)

This problem has existed in some universities. About a decade ago the University of Texas was asked to control the chaos in the offerings being made to faculty because the state auditor was concerned that the lack of regulation could lead to a lawsuit. So the university required that all vendors make proposals and conform to certain guidelines. This cleaned up the major abuses and limited the "menu" of choices to the better vendors.

Here's a good website for following this topic: http://www.403bwise.com/
March 12, 2007 4:41 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Activemanager,

Please don't leave us hanging! Share the research that shows 5 stars on past performance is likely to persist into the future. A link to a reputable research journal would be much appreciated.

Rod
March 13, 2007 10:55 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Scott, Your articles are a definite read with me.

The article, "Money Managers take a bite" was one I found very interesting.

I am not sure how you calculated the figures you give, but would appreciate it if you explined in an article, or on your website.

Mike

From Scott Burns: The calculator is pretty simple. It calculates the growth of a single sum at three different growth rates: (1) the growth rate you enter, (2) the growth rate less a high expense ratio, and (3) the growth rate less a lower expense ratio. The spreadsheet then calculates the amounts in dollars and in percent from the no expense growth rate (#1). You can play with the calculator here.
March 13, 2007 11:31 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Hi Scott, sorry for the serial posting.

I just wanted to make sure my skepticism above was not too subtle. As you know well, with nothing more than 8th grade arithmetic one can show that absent fees on average a dollar invested in an actively managed account will get the same return as a dollar invested in an index fund of the same class (a small cap index vs a small cap actively managed fund, for example), over the short or long term, bull or bear markets. Take out fees, and on average managed funds are real losers.

Over the long haul I believe the vast majority of investors will experience very much the pain you outline, as any market beating returns are likely to be short lived.

While it is possible there is an active manager that earns their keep somewhere, good luck to anyone who thinks they can consistently find that manager.

As most people sadly learn, with an active manager you rarely get to make market average, much less higher than average.

From Scott Burns: Most of us are slow to come to that conclusion. It means we have to get real about how much we need to save. The narcotic alternative is romantic hope that the Magic Manager will be the one we pick.

The dilemma is at least as great for journalists. As journalists, we like stories. We particularly love the hero-of-the-moment, the Unknown Money Manager with a story to tell about how he or she discovered the best stocks in Uganda or the Ukraine.

The alternative is a lot of numbers and statistics. Things not generally favored by wordsmiths. But after a while you have to ask yourself: Which do I really want most, exciting stories or a good path to financial security? My hope is that readers will choose financial security and then devote their energy into making their own lives into exciting stories.
March 13, 2007 3:16 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Hi Scott,

Firstly, a hearty thanks for all the great info you present. I am new to the forum, but have found much good advice and it not only providing me a bit of education and options, but also helping me shape my financial goals. For one, the article above has helped crystalize my own thoughts regarding why I even bother going through a money manager!

However, I am in a bit of a unique situation. You see, I am an American citizen, but live overseas. Because of this fact, I do not have to pay tax on my incom, but any other money I earn through investments is taxable (which could put a possible spin on my investments/portfolio, especially those which may be taxed). I was wondering if your couch-potato philosophy would be revised for someone in my situation.

Thanks for your consideration,

Jon P From Scott Burns: There wouldn't be much change to the Couch Potato portfolios. They are generally invested in index mutual funds or ETF index funds so they are inherently tax efficient. On the fixed income side it would probably be beneficial to substitute iSavings Bonds for the TIPS fund investment.
March 14, 2007 1:40 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

You say save yourself the expense of fees and your portfolio will benefit in the near and long term, but that does not work for everyone's peace of mind.

My husband graduated with a general business degree and managed our saving and budding retirement portfolio for years when he was younger and he did a fairly good job at it. We lost probably less than any of our friends when the tech stocks killed the market, but he never felt comfortable in that decision-making position. The more our investments and income grew, the more he felt ill-prepared to make the right choices and resented the time he spent trying to educate himself about what to do next.

We tried using our bank for investment advice, but there was too much turnover and the investment officers we dealt with did not really seem any more knowledgeable then we were.

For the past 5 years, we have used an investment advisor we found through a friend's recommendation when I was looking for a 403b plan. One suggested investment almost doubled the first year but then made relatively little gain...the others performed usually under market with high risk and volatility. We grew increasingly dissatisfied but still had no real idea of where to turn, thinking that we would probably make as poor a new choice as the old.

I suggested to my husband going to Fidelity for investment advice, but he did not think Fidelity would offer specific insight regarding estate/retirment planning. I suggested using your Couch Potato and later the Margarita portfolio, but he wanted the oversight of an advisor--even though our current one was not providing the insight and personal attention he originally promised.

While researching how to find a retirement/ investment advisor, we discovered that the local CPA firm that is highly ranked within its profession and has done our personal and business tax returns for almost two decades had recently started an asset-management, investment-advisor arm. Because of our positive background with this firm and after meeting with the partner who heads this division--(who is a CPA and PFS)--we decided to use him/it to manage our defined-benefit/business and personal portfolios and give us insight into retirement and estate planning.

Their management fee will be 1% of value which we will probably pay outright as an expense instead of having it siphoned from the portfolio. We had the option to pay a flat-fee for review/advice, but my husband wanted to be able to ask for continuing information based on his changing business situation without encurring additional fees.

Our portfolio will mainly be invested in a composite fund the advisor has created from selected mutual funds and bond funds. These funds are screened for low volatility and fees, a long, successful manager tenue, and consistent returns at or above sector over long term. We were given the list and percentage of the fund and they seem to be quality picks even if not the same as those in the Couch Potato or Margarita.

Before making this choice, we had two sessions (could have had more if we felt the need) with the manager about what our current personal and business financial situations are, what our future expectations were regarding current and future lifestyle, income sources, estate needs. He presented several possible investment plans for us to consider. He also suggested several strategies for my husband's sole-proprietorship which we have since implemented.

Paying for this advice is an expense that most people would avoid--and I'm not arguing with your mathematical calculations which predict such a negative impact on portfolio value. I know you have told other people that paying for advice may be something they choose to do--just make sure there is a real value to the advice.

I do know my husband won't change his mind and take control into his own hands, especially as he grows closer to retirement and eventually we depend on our portfolio for the majority of our future income. He believes that having someone who is more knowledgeable than he is provide oversight is necessary for his peace of mind.

It remains to be seen if our past confidence with this firm will continue in this new relationship. Hopefully it will, but I hope I do not sound like I am too critical if I say I am not taking it as a certainty. I know that I expect to receive appropriate value either in quality of advice or financial return for what we will pay. From Scott Burns: What you outline, for better or worse, is what some people need: hand holding.

Just be aware that is has as large an impact on what you can spend in retirement as it can have on what you accumulate for retirement.
March 14, 2007 11:39 AM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Very good article , but you only demonstrated what happens to the accumulation side of the equation. Several studies state that a 4% initial withdraw rate from the portfolio and then adjusted for inflation has approx. a 90 plus chance of survival for a 30 year period. So the poor person who only accumulates 65 percent of the market return can only take our 2percent (assuming a 2 percent total cost ) !!! Unfortunately , that average person will probably withdraw more and not realize the implications until it is too late. In summary the indexer who accumulates 1million can take out 40K the first year and then adjust for inflation and the victim of active management has 700K for an initial safe withdrawl of 28K before taxes.
March 15, 2007 8:09 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

Oops, that person who only accumulates 700k thanks to hi cost can only take out 28K assuming that person sees the light and starts to index; but ,if that person continues to pay 1% fund cost plus 1% for an "advisor" will only be able to net 14K !! or 2% of the initial accumulated assets ; which is only 35 percent of an indexer before taxes. From Scott Burns: Absolutely right! The calculator only deals with portfolios in the accumulation phase. The problem is, if anything, worse for portfolios in the distribution phase--- when you want to take income from your nest egg. Then the expenses should be subtracted from your dividend and interest income.
March 15, 2007 9:39 PM
 

ABModerator03 said:

So Scott, In that article (Money Mgr could take more than the Taxman), I seem to fit Example 1. How does one calculate what the Money Mgr "tax" to be? As a retired school teacher (60 yrs old) and at the present time in no need to draw from my 403(b), what to do? Could I cash out and without IRS penalty reinvest in a low-cost index fund in an IRA account? (Based on $100,000) Will visit your website as invited to do so. Thanks for the informative article. Richard From Scott Burns: The easiest path would be to do a 1035 exchange from your existing high-cost 403(b) variable annuity to a low cost 403(b) variable annuity such as the one offered by Vanguard. It may also be possible to do an exchange inside the 403(b) to a regular mutual fund. You'll trigger penalties unique to what you hold but may avoid taxation of contributions and earnings because you are still inside the tax-deferred wrapper of the 403(b) plan.

In Boston, you might move this forward by visiting a Fidelity Investments office. You could, for instance, move out of your current holding to a low expense Fido index fund such as their Four-in-One Index fund. They would handle the details of the exchange and they would do it directly. They could also answer the question of whether it would work to do a move from a variable annuity to a regular mutual fund without incurring nasty expenses.
March 17, 2007 2:38 PM
 

kel707 said:

I tried over several days from two different computers in two different states trying to access this calculator. Is it no longer working?

Kelvin

May 28, 2007 2:32 AM
 

scottb said:

Sorry Kelvin,  

we are slowly working out the kinks here.   The link should work now and you can always click here.

http://www.assetbuilder.com:9669/wp-content/calcs/TheLongTermCostofExpensiveManagement.htm

May 28, 2007 8:27 AM

About scottb

Scott Burns has covered the changing world of personal finance and investments for nearly 40 years. Today, he ranks as one of the five most widely read personal finance writers in the country. Scott began his career as a newspaper columnist at the Boston Herald in 1977 where he was also the financial editor. Nationally syndicated in 1981 and now distributed by Universal Press, the column appears in newspapers from Boston to Seattle. In 1985 he joined the staff of the Dallas Morning News where his column quickly became one of the most widely read features in the paper. He left the Dallas Morning News in 2006 to become one of the founders of AssetBuilder and its Chief Investment Strategist. Burns is a graduate of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1962). He has written four books, including "The Coming Generational Storm" (MIT Press, 2004) coauthored with economist Laurence J. Kotlikoff. His fourth book, also coauthored with Kotlikoff, will be published this spring by Simon & Schuster. "Spend Til' the End" uses consumption smoothing to demonstrate the errors of conventional financial planning. His business experience includes working as a staffer for a major consulting company and service as a director and audit chairman of a NASDAQ listed manufacturing company. He and his wife divide their time between Dallas and Santa Fe, New Mexico.
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