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Social Security Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision

Last post 10-03-2007 9:58 AM by AVIDREEDUR. 3 replies.
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  • 05-21-2007 4:17 PM

    Social Security Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision

    Scott,

    Have you written about the above?

    I am trying to get a handle on how the  GPO and WEP  will impact my family and I am failing miserably! I have read:

    http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html and http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10007.html 

    to try and understand how my social security (and my wife's) will be impacted. I know that SS future is in doubt and will definitely change, but I would at least like to understand how it is supposed to work in theory for people that are in our situation.

    My wife worked for a public school for 7 years and contributed to TRS (http://www.trs.state.tx.us). Currently, she is the business manager for my 2 person S-corp and we pay into SS.

     Our plan is to have her go back to work in public education for 13 years so that she can get her 20 years in TRS. However, It looks like that unless she works in a job that pays into SS for 30 years then her (and mine) SS benefits will be cut, but I am not sure if I understand how all of this works.

     Thanks!

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  • 05-22-2007 6:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Social Security Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision

    No, I haven't written about it, although many are affected by it, particularly school teachers. Rather than try to figure out the formula, I suggest trying to get an approximate answer by getting (1) an estimate of what your Social Security benefits might be at a particular time and (2) by checking what your MAXIMUM reduction might be.

     You get the first in the mail once a year when you get your Social Security earnings statement--- although your wifes future benefit will change if she goes back to work.

     
    You can get an estimate of the maximum reduction here: http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm 

    Scott 


     

  • 07-15-2007 1:17 PM In reply to

    • EMF
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 07-15-2007
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    • Posts 23

    Re: Social Security Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision

    @gak

    Let me see if I can give you a quick answer.  I'm assuming that your wife's employment as a teacher is not covered by Social Security because she did not have SS taxes with held.  I'm also assuming that your wife will have 40 quarters of credit based on non-teaching earnings on which Social Security taxes were paid.

    First, you own benefit as a lifetime earner under Social Security will not be cut. Looking at a public teachers' website I saw a lot of misinformation, exaggeration, and pure nonsense about the subjects of GPO and WEP.  Don't believe anything you hear from teachers on the subject -- get accurate information.  Which it looks like you're trying to do by studying the material at the links you gave.

    Let's look at a couple of possible scenarios:

    When both you and your wife are retired, for your wife the SS Administration would look at spousal benefits which are approximately 50% of yours.  GPO would apply.  For every 3 dollars of her teacher's pension, they take away 2 dollars of her spousal benefit, but the spousal benefit does not go below zero.  Then they look at her benefit from her own earnings covered by Social Security.  Benefits are computed based on the average of the highest 35 years of indexed lifetime earnings.  At the Normal Retirement Age, the first $680 of monthly earnings is replaced at the rate of 90%, the next $3420 is replaced at the rate of 32%, and anything beyond that is replaced at the rate of 15%.  Since she probably will have less than 21 years of Substantial Earnings under Social Security, then WEP would apply.   Instead of 90% of the first $680 she would get 40%.  This is still a better deal than the average earner under Social Security who gets only a 32% return for working a bit extra and quite a bit higher for the top earner under Social Security who only gets 1% for working extra.  Of the two possible benefit amounts, whether spousal benefits reduced by GPO or her own benefit reduced by WEP, she will get the higher.  In the meantime, as a lifetime earner under SS, you get your own full benefit totally unaffected by either WEP or GPO.  So as a couple you get your full benefit, her teacher's pension, and she also receives some benefit from SS.

    Let's say that you die first.  In that case, her spousal benefit becomes whatever your benefit was, except that GPO still applies.  After reducing that by 2/3 of her pension, if it's higher than her own benefit reduced by WEP then she will get the higher benefit.  In this case, your wife continues to receive her teachers pension and a SS benefit which may increase.

    Hopefully this will get you started to a more accurate understanding of WEP and GPO.  Another source of information is http://www.ssa.gov/gpo-wep/.   

     

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  • 10-03-2007 9:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Social Security Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision

    the fact is that even though his wife has worked and paid into SS under her own account, she will have not only her spousal portion reduced by her teacher pension but she will also have HER own SS pension (whatever the amount) reduced...I can understand the logic behind the spousal portion--but if a person has worked at two jobs (which many teachers have done or are doing to make ends meet) and has paid into SS for that second job, then I just think the govt is taking advantage of its power to keep a payout promised and earned by individuals in that situation...

    when the loophole for spousal SS was closed, the law was changed so that now (I think) a teacher must work the last 5 years in a district/job that pays into SS and teacher retirement in order to receive unblemished SS earnings and teacher retirement...those districts are few and far between because the district has to pay 2 retirement portions (SS and TRS) instead of just TRS...

    there is even a penalty if a teacher withdraws retirement funds from TRS ( In TX) to invest separately...

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